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 Post subject: who shoots mf??
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:39 pm 
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yess I know I ask questions on here like crazy but theres so much to learn!.. Iv been so interested in the look of mf picture (mainly portraits) I would love to maybe try it out and invest in a used hassy 500c/m .. Are they that hard to figure out?? or am I really getting a head of myself? Im thinking maybe putting around 500-800 bucks out for a decent used one. Anyone have one? have experiences? advice etc lol


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:35 am 
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I shoot MF.... Mamiya Super 645 with motorized grip, and 2 backs. Prism finder without TTL meter, so I use a hand-held meter. I have the 80mm normal lens for it, and borrowing a 120mm macro lens, and 210mm telephoto prime from a friend.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:37 am 
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Don't bother getting one yet. It's a whole lotta hassle and you're just getting your feet wet right now. There's nothing special about MF portraits except the photographer takes more time to take the shot.

This coming from someone who shoots mostly film now.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:48 am 
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I'd have to agree with Taylor here, MF is a whole different bag of tricks, and honestly, I would concentrate on honing your skills with digital, and then if you want to play with film, you'll be able to find a medium format camera for a decent price either here or on CL.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:59 pm 
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I shoot MF.

If you are just starting out with photography then perhaps it might be premature to start into mf but I would encourage you to give it a whirl if you are looking for something different..

I found that shooting medium format really improved my technique and knowledge and it is a very different experience. It doesn't just take more time- it slows you down- which can be a good thing if you tend to rush through shots with a DSLR (but isn't always, ie. if you are shooting children). Unless you crop, with a 500 c/m, you would need to get used to square composition - which takes some time- I tend to like it, but it is diffferent. Manual focusing can be good or bad depending on the circumstances- I tend to like it - but it can be a bit more difficult with a 500 c/m. You can also get a different perspective if you are shooting with a waist level viewfinder (though there are downsides from reflected light) - manually metering (unless you get a metered prism). Filters for colour and for black and white are a bit of a hassle (that is just a film thing) - have you shot film before? Also, I find that you take a lot fewer shots, but the quality is vastly improved.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:10 pm 
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If you can, borrow a MF camera first. Use it and decide for yourself if it's right for you. No one can really decide for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:46 pm 
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I got a MF camera for my birthday in the fall (Yashica D) and it's awesome. That being said, I don't shoot a lot with it because the cost per frame is high (compared to digital and 35mm). I love the photo-taking process of MF, it's slower and more deliberate. That being said, it'll never become my primary camera, it's more of a novelty for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:56 pm 
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A whole group of us on here shoot with TLRs. That said, I don't use it as much since I shoot at night most of the time. I brake out my TLR if I shoot during the day. It's a fun camera and definitely makes you look at everything critically. Including the cost of film, developing and printing/scanning, you're looking at about $1.50 per photo.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:20 am 
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thericyip wrote:
A whole group of us on here shoot with TLRs. That said, I don't use it as much since I shoot at night most of the time. I brake out my TLR if I shoot during the day. It's a fun camera and definitely makes you look at everything critically. Including the cost of film, developing and printing/scanning, you're looking at about $1.50 per photo.


Actually if you buy expired film and use shoppers to develop it's less then 50 cents per shot.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:39 am 
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Metrix wrote:
thericyip wrote:
A whole group of us on here shoot with TLRs. That said, I don't use it as much since I shoot at night most of the time. I brake out my TLR if I shoot during the day. It's a fun camera and definitely makes you look at everything critically. Including the cost of film, developing and printing/scanning, you're looking at about $1.50 per photo.


Actually if you buy expired film and use shoppers to develop it's less then 50 cents per shot.


You get what you pay for. SDM at King and Yonge has gone down hill - so much so that I've abandoned 35mm C-41 all together. SDM regularly scratches negs and often covered in dust (since their lab is in-store and film is hung to dry). It's is cheap but IMHO SDM processing is not appropriate for anything other then snapshots that you're willing to risk damaging (scratches) or dust.

If you're doing 120 or 220 and the images are important to you, do yourself a favour and use fresh film and and have it processed in a 'pro' lab. No point in spending money on MF gear then skimping on film/processing. Crap in, crap out.

just my 2 cents.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:42 am 
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I'm waiting for Medium Format Digital (Phase One P45) to come down in price :) Then I can <attempt> to take pictures like this (click on image to see full rez version - 39megapixels):

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/10122011@N04/4198601913/" title="My Best Friend Butch"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2781/4198601913_6156c6109d.jpg" title="My Best Friend Butch" alt="My Best Friend Butch" width="500" height="375"></a>

Dallas Logan is an amazing photographer btw - he's come a long way in just a couple years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:27 am 
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Ken expired film works very well far from crap if you know the limitations of a batch of film and 220 film is cheaper then $.50 cents a shot even when developed at a pro lab. My point was not to use Shoppers but that medium format does not have to cost a mint. Even less expensive if you do home development.

Besides with shoppers one wipe with anti-static cleaning fluid and you can get some good negatives at least for 35mm with 120 you have to provide them with sleeves.

BTW pro labs these days also seem to have the occasional quality control issues not to point fingers but one in particular seems to be having more issues then a year ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 am 
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I have not converted to digitial, aside from a point an shoot, so I have a film bias. (I do scan negatives.)

In addition to my Nikons, I have a Pentax 67II. It is like 35mm camera on steroids: big but basically handles the same. A handful of years back I printed a number of shots at 16x20 and was quite impressed with the detail.

I enjoy using that camera, but just holding it in your hands does not generate great photos. Most of the time I shoot with it on a solid tripod, locking the mirror up first. It helps to understand some basics (including composition) and the quirks of different films. It never hurts to have a good long list of things you have learned from the mistakes you have made.

If you really want to shoot MF, I would suggest you not restrict yourself to looking at a Hassy only. There are some great old cameras out there.

I hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:04 pm 
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Metrix wrote:
Ken expired film works very well far from crap if you know the limitations of a batch of film and 220 film is cheaper then $.50 cents a shot even when developed at a pro lab. My point was not to use Shoppers but that medium format does not have to cost a mint. Even less expensive if you do home development.

Besides with shoppers one wipe with anti-static cleaning fluid and you can get some good negatives at least for 35mm with 120 you have to provide them with sleeves.

BTW pro labs these days also seem to have the occasional quality control issues not to point fingers but one in particular seems to be having more issues then a year ago.


Ryan - I think we have different standards. I can't accept unpredictable colour shifts and unpredictable ISO, loss of shadow detail and pronounced grain. Expired colour neg is fine for playing around with but for me, if I intend to make high quality prints I use in date film. YMMV and I respect that.

My point is that if the OP is intending to move to MF for image quality, ie higher resolution, colour saturation and gradient and tonality then why use unpredictable media that you can't be certain will produce the quality of image you intend. It's not worth the effort in my opinion.

However, if you want to just play with MF - get expired film and a holga or other inexpensive MF camera.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:14 pm 
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I think medium format can be a great learning tool. Get an older, non-metered system like a Mamiya 645 and you're only in for $2-300. Add another $50 or so on a light meter. It will cause you to slow down and think before you shoot.

Medium format is also a great tool for portraits. The "normal" lenses in a given system will give you a shallower dof (vs the equiv in 35mm) and will yield the kind of isolation you'd normally only get with a longer lens.

And as mentioned above... there are ways to shoot on the cheap. Buy b&w from Freestyle for a couple of bucks a roll and develop yourself.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:44 pm 
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Ken we are talking about learning to use medium format by a relativity new photographer on a limited budget not the making of fine art prints. MF facilitates the learning composition and controlling the depth of field in a way that you just can't do with 35mm or less. Not to mention how do read a scene with a light meter.

Of course my standards are different the yours but you are making assumptions about the unpredictability of expired film which is quite frankly incorrect. Your also making assumptions about the quality and printability of my work in sizes as large as 24" x 24" I can tell you I have several thousands of dollars hanging in NY using expired film, no complaints no crap. Of course when I'm shooting for a specific project or use I choose the film for the use, this includes fresh film when needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Let's not make this into a pissing contest. I've made no assummptions or value judgment about the quality or printability of your work. I haven't seen your printed work.

I wrote that our standards are different not better or worse.

I stand by my assertion that expired film (unknown storage circumstances) as a rule, produces less predictable results with respect to colour, tonality and grain, than in-date/fresh film. From viewing some of your work, it is clear to my eye that what we are trying to achieve is different and I think even a casual viewing will probably conclude by viewing our respective images that you generally choose to apply greater amounts of post-processing to your images (film and digital) than I do with mine (again not a value judgment just an observation).

The OP mentioned that he wants to explore portraiture with MF and the only assumption that I'm making is that he wants the highest image quality, the most predictable and consistent (roll to roll) colours (especially for skin tones) and accurate speed rating possible (especially if he's going to take the trouble to carefully light a portrait subject using strobes).

That is my point and it's not about you or your choice of film, processing, printing etc...

No, if the OP is on a limited budget he should evaluate for himself if investing in a 5-800 Hasselblad V system is worth his time if he can't afford fresh film and processing. The more sensible alternative is to rent MF gear (+ bonus of it being less likely to have mechanical/optical issues vs. buying used on a tight budget from online sources) to figure out what system suits him best and to spend money on fresh film and $4-8 processing at a 'pro' lab vs. $2.99 at a SDM.

Again, you're entitled to espouse the virtues of expired film as I am entitled to point out it's weaknesses.

Metrix wrote:
Ken we are talking about learning to use medium format by a relativity new photographer on a limited budget not the making of fine art prints. MF facilitates the learning composition and controlling the depth of field in a way that you just can't do with 35mm or less.

Of course my standards are different the yours but you are making assumptions about the unpredictability of expired film which is quite frankly incorrect. Your also making assumptions about the quality and printability of my work in sizes as large as 24" x 24" I can tell you I have several thousands of dollars hanging in NY using expired film, no complaints no crap. Of course when I'm shooting for a specific project or use I choose the film for the use, this includes fresh film when needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:07 pm 
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Ken I think we can both agree that pissing and crapping are different bodily functions. But renting MF gear would be a waste of the OP money. At his stage of development his only reference to shooting MF is shooting 35mm or cropped factor digital. So what if he likes one system better then another after renting them because any decision based on 35mm equipment is missing the point.

My recommendation would be to go to the January camera show with his budget and someone that knows equipment and then buy some type of MF system from a local dealer that has a good reputation. If after a few months of shooting he doesn't like it or he just wants to try something different then he can sell it on ebay and buy something new at the spring camera show. I doubt that if buys carefully that he will loose more then a day's rental, must likely he will come out ahead. At least he will end up with enough experience to make a rational decision of where he wants to go next.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:12 am 
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Perhaps we need some cute kitten pictures at this point... :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:07 am 
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http://nortonphoto.blogspot.com/ go here and check out the first picture (Chris haslam) thats an amazing picture and one of the reasons why I love the look of mf


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:25 am 
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This is an interesting read on Robert Benson's site. It is some what related to the OP question specifically the parts about medium format. It's not as first appears the same old same old digital versus film.

http://robertbenson.com/blog/2009/12/29 ... -use-film/


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Taylor wrote:
Don't bother getting one yet. It's a whole lotta hassle and you're just getting your feet wet right now. There's nothing special about MF portraits except the photographer takes more time to take the shot.

This coming from someone who shoots mostly film now.


I think you've got some good advice here about getting your feet wet. I don't really know what your background is or your abilities, but what is it about medium format that you think you'll gain vs your current equipment? I fell into the trap of buying more gear thinking it would improve my photography but over time what I realized was that I was the real limiting factor not the equipment. Anyways I just hope you learn from my mistake and differentiate between improving your photography vs the equipment, and save yourself some $$ and trouble if that's the case! My 2c.


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