Toronto Photography Meetup Group

Shoppers are warned to protect their identity with more and more retailers asking for info such as phone numbers and email addresses and especially drivers licenses. Downtown camera asks for your drivers license and takes down the info. when you make a purchase.

Who do they think they are getting peoples drivers license info. at the time of making your payment. Vistek doesn't Henry's doesnt. Be warned!

Article today from 680 News:
I just read an article by 680 News:

http://www.680news.com/news/national/ar ... -retailers

"I don't have one"

Problem?

Downtown Camera only asks for photo ID when making a credit card purchase over a certain amount (IIRC that's $100). This is a simple fraud prevention scheme and frankly not that unusual for larger CC purchases.

Note that I'd been asked for photo ID by plenty of retailers when making CC purchases. Including Henrys (never Vistek, but I've never made a large CC purchase there).

Learn to live like a drug dealer.

Pre-paid cell phones only

No plastic and no IDs

All purchases in cash only!

There is no law that says you need to provide personal information that could be used for identity theft just because you use a credit card to make a purchase over a certain amount. I certainly have stopped shopping at that store. I use my credit card all over and never get asked to show my drivers license. It's absurd!

sometimes even walmart ask for photo id
but they don't copy down your info

There is no law that prevents them from making it a requirement of purchase either.

Very simple way for you to make your displeasure known... don't shop there.

Sounds like they may have been scammed more than once with credit cards and are taking steps to manage that risk.

Nothing wrong with that. Would we rather that they factor cost into the prices that they sell their goods for?

There are very strict rules and legislation in Ontario and Federally around the collection and use of personal information. I'd recommend that everyone research and be aware of their rights in the matter.

http://www.ipc.on.ca/english/Privacy/Co ... formation/

[quote]Under FIPPA and MFIPPA,

"Why does downtown camera ask for your drivers license?"

I can only guess that it was due to one too many charge backs from the bank.

http://www.merchantcouncil.org/merchant ... timate.php

Just like NSF charges, the merchant will also be charged a fee from the bank for each charge back - so on top of losing out cash for the product that went out the door, they are also losing out on fees to the bank.

Where you shop is really up to you but I personally like to go to stores where I know the owner and they know me - so I don't get asked for ID too often.

If you read PIPA it covers how organizations may collect, use and disclose personal information. There is nothing prohibiting them from asking you for your driver's license and doing an ID check on you - where they will get in trouble is if they record and collect it after checking it.

This pertains to government collection of info, not companies.

I've made credit card purchases of over $2000.00, at two separate Henry's locations, without showing any photo ID on several occasions.

I don't mind letting them see my license for proof of who I am. I just don't want it photographed or photocopied.

If I was a store owner I would want some reassurance if someone wanted to to spend a small fortune on camera gear. I worked in a stereo store while in college and they got burned by not recording the plate number by a guy with a stolen CC. Its the store owners responsibility.

Meh - I wouldn't shop there if I didn't like their policies - many stores now are doing this. B&H does it. Adam has suggested that some Henry's locations will do it as well. Personally I don't have an issue with it so I do shop there (as well as other places) that ask for second ID.

That said, as someone who's worked in a financial institution (Bank) I can tell you that the "fraudsters" are always one step ahead of any security measures that may be set up to limit said fraud.

So, when it comes to stores (be they Downtown Camera, Aden, Henry's, B&H or otherwise) these stores are merely trying to verify that the name on the credit card MATCHES the name on said piece of I.D. (usually a Drivers License).

The next time you're in a store purchasing with a credit card see if the sales clerk even LOOKS at the name on the card. See if they actually verify (if the store or card isn't chip equipped) that your signature matches the one on the back of the card. It's rare nowadays that this occurs - most sales folks don't care. The result? An increase in credit card fraud, an increase in claims back to the credit card companies and their "justification" for outrageous interest rates.

Preventing fraud is in everyone's best interest - from the sales clerk to you the customer to the credit card company.

Cheers,
Dave

I work at Black's, and so far prevented 5 potential fraud purchases.

Unfortunately its a big problem. There's the typical idiot fraud who walks in and automatically asks for the 5Dmk2. We ask for photo ID, they hand it over, we pretend credit card doesn't work, we call for authorization, they run like rabbits.

While that's happening, one of the other staff has a camera in hand snapping photos with a 7D of the perp.

As a customer you can kindly decline not to show ID, and you can ask them to call your bank to verify and the bank can verify your identity over the phone.

I don't blame Downtown Camera, its hard for an independent retailer to swallow several thousands of losses a month because of fraud.

Not true anymore, at first it only applied to commercial activities of federally regulated private sector organizations, it now applies to the retail sector, service industries etc...

http://www.priv.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_15_e.cfm

Just as an FYI:

I was in Merkle Camera last night buying a new lens.

They also asked for a driver's license when I handed my credit card to them.

I'm beginning to think it's pretty much standard practice.

Cheers,
Dave

Back when I was 18 I didn't have a driver's license (or 365) yet (didn't feel the need to get one living in Toronto). I needed to rent some tools from Stephenson's Rent-All, but of course they wanted a driver's license...so I had to go out and apply for my 365, and they accepted that.

Back then though there wasn't pictures on the license.

I'm curious, what's a "365"?

Before the G1/G2/G system was introduced in the 90s the 365 was your learner's permit, basically the license you got for passing your written test.

Wow is this true that not everyone has a driver's license? You mean everyone in this city does not drive? Better let the mayor know that!

I have a feeling that getting customers personal information might violate the agreement that merchants have with credit card companies themselves.

I remember getting my applications for all kinds of credit cards and they never say that another piece of photo ID like a drivers licence might be asked of you to verify your identity to make certain purchases.

Maybe downtown camera wants to protect themselves, but usually it's not the one of the owners asking me for my ID. It's usually one of their "employees". How the hell do I know what they are going to do with that information? Maybe steal it? and go shopping on line?

Lets face it , maybe downtown camera wants to cut down on their risks. But we as consumers have rights to protect our identities and cut down on our risks of identity fraud too. Which is a REALLY BIG risk for us folks.

Are the employees at camera stores trustworthy? Do you shop there a lot and so you "know" them and they "know" you like a brother ? SO you don't have to worry about it? Haaaa.

Bettter not to shop at places that have to ask you for some kind of extra ID.

You have the right to not buy anything if you don't to show your ID. They also have to the right not to sell you anything if you don't show them your ID.

I strongly suggest that if you have this much of an issue using a credit card that you pay for everything using debit or cash

Problem solved.

Cheers,
Dave

dcsang wrote

"I strongly suggest that if you have this much of an issue using a credit card that you pay for everything using debit or cash.
Problem solved."

Not so fast! Try buying $3000.00 worth of gear with $100.00 bills. The clerk will scrutinize each bill, and not just the $100's. They still take your contact number and tell you if their bank refuses to accept your bills they will be in contact with you. A friend of mine bought some computer components from Canada Computers and it amounted to several hundred dollars. He paid with cash because of the privacy concerns, but they still asked for his contact info. Several days later Canada Computers called to say that several of his bills were refused by their bank, because it was counterfeit. The bank took these bills away(would not return- some Bank of Canada policy). Now they contacted him because they want him to compensate them for this loss. It's their word against his!
Using debit would be the safer bet here!

Having worked in a bank I can tell you that this is true - banks will hold onto counterfeit bills to take them out of circulation and the customer (i.e. in this case Canada Computers) would be left "holding the bag" as it were.

Now, the bank does have methods in place to ensure cash is not laundered. At the time, the amount for us was anything over $10,000 would need to be put on hold in the customers account for verification. Forms would need to be filled out etc. Does Canada Computers have a "right" to take information for something that's being paid for in cash? - I don't know IANAL but I'm sure your friend could have, like we have stated to the OP here - declined to purchase from that store. Now, the question I would have, if I were Canada Computers was - why did your friend try to pass off "several (apparently counterfeit) bills"?

My point was; if the concern is that you dislike the store policy - either you pay via another method or you find another store that will meet your needs. Maybe another store that won't take I.D. or that will accept the credit card of anyone you may have in your hand at the time.

Cheers,
Dave

I think the issue is less with showing them your ID, I never have a problem doing so. More of an issue is when they record your id and other private info.

A lot of the time shops don't even have a written and available privacy policy to disclose why they are collecting the information and what they are going to do with it. I don't know for sure, but I believe the Ontario Privacy Comissioner actually requires them to have such information available to consumers.

descang wrote:

"Now, the question I would have, if I were Canada Computers was - why did your friend try to pass off "several (apparently counterfeit) bills"?

The point is he didn't knowingly pass off counterfeit bills. He wouldn't try and pass if off if he knew they were fakes. We have a situation were the retailer is saying one thing and the customer another. Who is telling the truth? And if they were fakes then Canada Computers accepted them at the time of purchase. The onus is now on them to take the fall. They turn around and try to pin it on my friend.

If your friend "didn't know" they were fake then he should consider where he got the bills from. If they were from an ATM, then he should contact the ATM owner (or bank/financial institution). Counterfeit bills, if you know what you're looking for, can be easy to spot - and you don't even need a black light to do so.

Clearly though, Canada Computers did not accept the bills "outright" since they took your friends information specifically for the reason that if there was a problem with the bills they could, in turn, contact him/her regarding the money. Which is exactly what happened.

Cheers,
Dave

If the Vendor insists on taking ID details, then it only makes sense to also take down the serial numbers of the bills and give a copy of both to the customer and have both parties sign it. Otherwise there is not way to verify that a particular customer made payment with those counterfeit bills.

Since the bank has the bills now, how is my friend going to go about trying to prove to the source( if he knows) of these bills that they are fake; and even if he did have them, the originating source can also be on the defensive and say that they did not supply the fake bills. Ultimately it is the last person holding the bag that gets screwed.!